http://www.minnesotaorchestra.org/insidetheclassics/blog/2010/02/science-confirms-12-tone-music.html

I remember when "they," the experts, said that rock music caused juvenile delinquency. Further, I also remember Deep Purple being mentioned by the Guinness book of records as "the worlds loudest band."

I suppose going deaf is a small price to pay to for clarity.

Phil Fried, No Sonic Prejudice!

March 3, 2010 10:02 PM

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6283

digging deeper
By philmusic

Frank a casual look at any elementary band/choir/strings catalog will show 100's of original works. These are performed all over. Not to mention the college and university performance scene where 1000's of composers ply their trade. True in a way this is not public performance.

I was told in Grad School that to be placed in the "new music ghetto" was not such a good thing-strictly B team. Of course this was before the coming of the "popnewmusic" ensembles where sonic exclusivity and prejudice are the selling points. (Personally I prefer to be performed by generalists rather than specialists).

If you are speaking exclusively of the major institutions remember how comparatively hard it is for an American composer to have an international reputation V.S. a European composer. Further though we are constantly looking for the next Bernstein, technically America doesn't have official composers. Nor do we have the government that would fund those kind of high level performances for said composer.

Obviously vision and funding makes the difference. I must agree that the diversity of American new music is not reflected in its Major Institutions. As too whether more high level performance would change that is an open question.

Phil Fried, not running for office

Phil's page

Tuesday, March 02, 2010, 3:20:59 PM

 http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6286

Sadly, not every one is open minded.
By philmusic

Colin, back in the day I was aware of a number of musicologists and theorists (not to single them out), expert on a particular composer and their music, who privately detested said composer and their music. Does this mean their observations lack insight?

On the other hand a few only liked their subjects music and disliked all others. Did that interfere with them teaching general history or recent music?

Further I was also aware of more than a few musicians who could prove that composition stopped with Mozart. Even if they could, is this true?

Being a professional performer also means occasionally performing music one does not like--does that necessarily make the performance any less persuasive?

Anyway these H.G. Wells comments, which I have never seen before, reflect my own opinion that "like and dislike precede all" the rest is just tautology to make it work.

If art is greater than people that depends on the people and the art.

Phil Fried, who actually thinks that life is just high school all over again.

A Phil Page

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6279

now that you mention it.
By philmusic

Perhaps this would be a good time to bring back smell-o-vision.

Phil Fried

Phil's fragrance free page -- now hypoallergenic!

Thursday, March 04, 2010, 10:23:00 AM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6278

several interesting issues here--audience composers etc.

the directors art
By philmusic

Interesting Frank.

Its been said, and not just by me, that opera has become the directors art. Even here John Adams can't be mentioned without also including Peter Sellers. If only the Met instead of creating all those new productions of "warhorses" commissioned original music to go with them instead.

Of the several Manons for example I am unaware of any that actually follow whats in the book.

Though the Mayor's proclamation is heartening I'm afraid that Europe does the composer better service.

Phil's main Page

On second thought
By philmusic

Chris and Frank, perhaps we are looking at this backwards--

As composers it is our diversity that is our strength.

Phil Fried Phil's extra special page

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6270

What else is new?
By philmusic

This "opportunity" has some problems. In the first place "one day to work with the ensemble" simply would not be enough time. For me anyway.

Besides, the point is moot because as a serial composer this ensemble would never perform my music.

Phil Fried

Phil'd Page

___

 http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comments

It’s a pity about all those lonely unsolicited scores, Chris. One might suppose there is another pile for the recommended composers. Anyway I’m not included in either pile. A serial composers chances aren’t very good these days.

Even with the best intentions: what you seem to be saying is this:

Your not cool, but if you pay our fee we will show you around the VIP room.

Philip Fried

On second thought

Hey there is an opportunity here–why doesn’t 8BB or another a new music ensemble do a marathon reading of every single work submitted?

Say 100 dollar fee but every work is performed with structured limitations of timing and instruments? recording extra???

that sounds a least win win!!!

Phil Fried stressing the positive.

naturally one expects more than sight reading.

Dennis, I think the entry fee should be $1000 , for each band member.

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6267

 this is a a sore point for many if as I say here is true:  then the new musicology is a "no neck bastard" and simply political speak. Again Pgblu makes an overbearing case obviously he is a goog guy.

Well...
By philmusic

I don't think Colin that you change intentionality by merely changing ones choice of words. Being fired or being downsized or rightsized amounts to the same thing.

Rather one should draw a distinction between what one says and one does.

Phil Fried, Phil's main page

Thursday, February 11, 2010, 8:56:44 AM

US and Them

"McClary' work belongs to what we like to call New Musicology...."

Well I couldn't have put it better myself.

Phil Fried Phil's Page

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6262

Adorn? No!
By philmusic

No problem Pugblu--it seems that you were correct. Some folks around here have not read the book.

Phil Fried, talking tough as usual. Phil's Page

Cat People Unite!
By philmusic

My cat had a great success in Germany!

Don't get me started on Bunnies!

Phil Fried, will be in NY soon!

Friday, February 05, 2010, 5:38:36 PM

U asked for it!
By philmusic

Bun-Buns Behind Bars

This is one of my facebook albums, perhaps to see them you will have to friend me.

Come on in!

Phil Fried

Thursday, February 11, 2010, 9:00:13 PM

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6245

__________________________

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6244

 I agree with Kyle here, yet I don't see the need to vilify those who don't agree with me.  It is just as easy to say uptown=elitist as to say downtown=snobs

anyway..2 cents
By philmusic

In my line of work learning is much simpler if folks can connect what they already know to what they are just about to find out. Program notes can help connect those dots.

Also there are many composers and sound artists who create works that are on the surface incomprehensible (I don't mean good or bad just monochromatic). So with out program notes or the editorial of the curator the audience just won't get it.

For myself, especially with my own vocal works, I want the music to speak for itself.

Finally I think its a big mistake to overlook the sentimental attachments that can only be created by program notes etc. Many careers have been built on just this.

Oddly, I was at a pre-concert talk once where the performer's speech made me hate the composer.

Go figure.

Phil Fried One of Phil's many pages

 some humor

Eureka I've got it!
By philmusic

So if I set my program notes to music, then I could set the program notes for my work, program notes set to music, to music.

Then I could set my program notes for the program notes for my other new work program notes to the program notes of my work program notes set to music, to music. Its only a hop, skip, and jump to set the program notes of the program notes of the program notes for my new work program notes to the program notes to the program notes to the program notes of my work program notes set to music, to music.

One question? Is this work programmatic?

Phil Fried, I know I know...

___________________

http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/01/tod-machover-on-music-technology/comment-page-1/#comment-22085

Who wants to blog about analog?

Whats with the NY Times and new music?

I suppose this harks back to the old Newsweek and Time magazines coverage from the 1960’s and 1970’s when the “Once Group” and the MN Opera” were used to provide the what is the latest strange thing the arts are up to these days?

Any publicity is good publicity. Right?

On the other hand one was under the impression that the folks who read those reviews and puff pieces were not the folks who attended the performances. With over 10,000 composers in the NYC area perhaps that’s no longer true.

In every case the subject of these NYT profiles are folks who present their ideas through music. They are also really really cool.

Simply put; the NYT presents composers for whom the music does not come first. Text, or in this case technology, based work is easier to explain in text of course.

During hard times its nice to know that stage machinery and set dressing can now be run by software alone.

American ingenuity-I take off my hat.

Phil Fried

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6220

oh well..
By philmusic

Music encompasses multiple ways to notate anything musical. Even the note "C". I suppose one has to draw a line between being "too fussy" and being accurate. This comes with experience.

Than again in many of popular music's melodic lines and raps there is a rhythmic complexity that is problamatic to notate. It's hard to read, yet not to hard to learn by rote.

Go figure.

Phil Fried, Skid Row University, Free Beer!!

composers powerful?
By philmusic

Um Ryan, if I take your comment seriously, perhaps not the best idea, I need to point out that you seem to be confusing a "person" or an "activity" with a position of power.

For example Louis B. Mayer was thought to be a very powerful man. Yet that power was not his. It only resided in his job at MGM. When he left that job he was nobody.

Period.

There are many other cases like this at many other; institutions, colleges and universities, also politics etc. Composers are included of course.

Yet its not because one is a composer that they have power. Rather its because one is invested with a position of power by others.

Phil Fried PhilFried.com

 Check my other blog  http://philipfried.blogspot.com/

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6190

A different View.
By philmusic

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6170

I chimed in late on this on Pugblu was getting highfalutin, I'm a little surprise by the inflexibility of mind here.  The answer to the question of whether "music is a language" according to him and Colin is not to be trusted to musicians but only to the linguists. Linguists may have no interest in music whatsoever. They may also be failed composers and performers with an axe to grind. 

More important the privileged nature of text based language, their very profession,  is at stake in this discussion.  Academic self interest is the 300 pound gorilla in the room that nobody admits to seeing.

So this is a zero sum game.  A competition.  That is my point--a zero sum game has winners and losers.  This trickles down into music education is being discarded in favor of text based language testing.

lets not get excited now...
By philmusic

“Music doesn't do anything, it's morally inert until it is used for something -- good or evil alike…”

Walt Whitman said as much for his poems and the same can be said for any language. I believe that H.G. Wells pointed out that to control minds you had to control language.

My point is that music is a language and a form of communication. Isn’t there a purpose to learning how to communicate? Doesn’t learning a language have a particular benefit?

Rather it’s the fact that one can use any language to lie, cheat, and steal, and worse, that doesn’t mean anything. Other than criminal culpability.

I find it particularly irresponsible when the private world of scholars and college professors say things about the most esoteric phenomena, and in their own private language, which then puts music education at risk.

That’s my job your mess’in with.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com Happy at Last.

its getting hot..
By philmusic

Um, I'm not an ethnomusicologist but there are several cultures, not just primitive, that use instrumental music for communication, and in a very specific way. The Hmong for example.

One might also include morse code as a rhythmic pattern but thats besides the point. One thing language does is that it can attempt to persuade. Thats out of my line.

What you are really asking for is a direct translation of sound, say a Mozart String Quartet, into words. It seems that you are giving priority to text based language here. Of course there are many who feel that text based language has no meaning either. The fact that babelfish can't translate music to text proves nothing.

Believe what you need to believe.

Phil Fried, who feels good about many things

Coffee tea and tautology
By philmusic

The important issue here is what insight is gained by holding the opinion that music is not a language.

Obviously “distancing” can give you a vantage point of dismissive power. Part and parcel of that dismissiveness is that all you seem to offer is what music can’t do. Perhaps this opinion is simply the price of admission to the team and to hold any other opinion would be deemed unprofessional or worse.

That’s not insight.

Phil Fried, perhaps not as happy as he would like.

Thursday, November 05, 2009, 10:01:42 AM

Now I get it...or do I?
By philmusic

"...I don't think anyone loses out if we make it clear that music is not a language - "

You haven't made it clear. All you've made clear is your refusal to see that this point could be disputed.

Nice advantage that.

Phil Fried, who needs to practice more

my last word on this I swear...
By philmusic

The answer to the question of whether "music is a language" is evidently not to be trusted to musicians but only to linguists. Linguists that may have no interest in music whatsoever. Or they may be failed composers and performers with an axe to grind.

More importantly the privileged nature of text based language, the linguists very profession, is at stake in such a discussion. Academic self interest, not the search for truth, is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

So this is a zero sum game, a death match competition. That is my point--a zero sum game has winners and losers. This trickles down into music education that is now being discarded in favor of text based language testing.

I have to disagree that I am attempting to persuade here. Rather I see myself as an immovable object.

Phil Fried, who talks big

well maybe not..
By philmusic

Phil, music education cannot possibly be synonymous with learning "how to listen to music" -- if it's really that, then it's nothing more than indoctrination, and for all I care, music ed can vanish off the face of the earth.

You seem to be confusing how and why. Is this another linguistic technique for quashing dissent? The rest just seems tit for tat.

Um, I thought we were all music educators here.

I'm afraid your comments are all too typical of the disconnect between the appointed thinkers of our profession and the doers.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com

[this is the breaking point it seems no one likes being the "other" but the disconnect is real] 

rapprochement? Perhaps?
By philmusic

Students know why they listen to music, and educators give them the tools to explore further. They do not act as indoctrinators or as cheerleaders or as PR-people..

Pgblu, I must disagree here, I personally know many teachers who sell soap, sad to say. I'm not sure that everyone knows why they listen either. Many kids don't know about payola, and don't know that commercial radio time can be bought and is. Hardly any realize that if they chose to listen to "death metal music" the kids who listen to "alternative" won't speak to them. They certainly don't know why, at the local arts high school, young classical musicians must hide themselves because everyone else will think them nerds. Anyway I don't know any teachers who teach just "passive" listening. I'm an instrumental teacher myself and class room music teachers are vocal specialists or are supposed to be.

So we must agree to disagree. My vision of music just seems more nuanced than yours, reflecting my experience, that doesn't make it better.

Anyway, my apologies to you. You seem to have interpreted my general comments for personal ones. Yet I would rather feel you anger a thousand fold than pretend its not there. [pretend that these issues aren't important]

Phil Fried

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6159

Did I leave someone out?
By philmusic

"we'd finally recover from the masterpiece syndrome... "

Frank I'm not sure about this idea--in this way. For example, Beethoven wasn't trying to corner the market, just doing the best he could--we all are.

Rather it's the; associates, the hangers on, the followers, the invested, the self interested, the power hungry, the gate keepers, the axe grinders, the know nothings, the smug, the self proclaimed, the Ad men, the Ad women, the profiteers, the teachers, the college professors, and the publicists, who draw a line in the sand and say art stops here.

Phil Fried, already included, but thanks for asking.

One of Phil's many pages

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6147

I'll Say..
By philmusic

"The Biggest Disaster in the History of Art"

...Is the tendency of small minded people to aggressively assert their stupidity. Sad to say that includes musicians and gate keepers too.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com no sonic prejudice

more than a flash of anger
By philmusic

Ah, I remember the days when in interviews pop bands related (probably on their publicist's orders) that if Mozart was alive to day he would be a member of "Hermans Hermits" etc etc... It seems now that a lot of folks believe it.

Music with intellectual content has been discarded in favor of the catchy tune as the social necessity of all music has changed, for example, the popularity of dance music over listening music, and the ubiquity of radio and popular music. Classical Radio follows suit in their programing of easy listening.

Its the cheapest form of hindsight to speculate on what Mozart's career would be today. I think a number of folks have commented on the failure of his career in his lifetime. I would assume that his experience today would be no different because oddly enough he was the cutting edge in his time.

Phil Fried, not so angry, PhilFried.com

PS to say that popular music ic based on Mozart leaves a whole lot of African Americans out of the loop.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6146

truly said, and not just in church..
By philmusic

"..where mediocrity is actually something people are trying to achieve—and it is not being led necessarily by musicians, but by the politics..."

Music composition is an area where mediocrity is not only tolerated; its demanded.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6139

now that you mention it...
By philmusic

It is unfortunate that so much of our musical world is defined by marketers with products to sell. Statistics and polls are so easy to “color” for political purposes. A “box” is presented to us and we are forced to work within it no matter how uncongenial.

Sometimes one has to refuse.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com

________________

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6140

no sonic prejudice
By philmusic

Well if you believe that music can make you smarter, it’s just a hop, skip, and jump to believe that music can make you all sorts of things.

For others it’s not the music at all but the total package. In this case music becomes a fashion accessory for a look or an attitude. As the old “outlaw” attitude gets domesticated a new one comes along. This creates anxiety. Meanness has always been the other side of being “hip.” Anyway these looks and ideas are mostly created by corporate marketers to sell product. For most it’s a pose.

In any case every profession has its nuts and weirdoes.

Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice

an odd paradigm
By philmusic

Well you see folks have no problem with erotic music, as long there is no profanity, but folks have a big problem with erotic images.

On the other hand folks have no problem with violent images, yet seem have a big problem with violent music, profanity or not.

Combine them? Look out!

The thing is we are not really taking about music at all but about text. That is the words to songs, stories, scenarios etc.

Violence in words is another kettle of fish altogether.

Phil Fried, Phil Fried.com

Well sometimes...
By philmusic--Ralph is talking about something else here  " Music has everything to do with the interpretation of text." but sometimes its the other way around. He doesn't get I'm talking about a particular kind of music...

Ralph, you have a point especially with the examples you give. That said the relationship of text to music is, where there is a relationship, quite variable.

In the context of some popular (and other) music the exact same accompaniment can be used to set many many different texts. In that case, and there are quite a few, the only difference is the text, and perhaps the scansion to make it fit.

In those cases the music being generic is not crucial, the text being different is.

Perhaps you overlooked the fact that the music videos and their scenarios are text objects. In that case music can underscore a purely visual image (of course someone was needed to write the scene even if there is no dialog).

Anyway, the text/title/music relationship is a subject of infinite discussion which I doubt we will all agree.

Phil Fried PhilFried.com

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6134 

 I'm starting to feel that though they like my posts--they must think I'm a road hog

--it seems that it takes days before my posts are posted?

It is typical of language to reinvent itself every generation more so for
academic language.   It has been my observation that behind the jargon and
hair splitting is the very simple concepts of like and dislike.   There is
something else too.

Consider Hugo Leichtentritt defense of Schoenberg's music:  Its good
therefore tonal.
In response to Schenker, and his students, who said this about Schoenberg:
Its bad therefore not tonal.  Both schools of thought share the same
underlying tenant (paradigm) that tonality is the basis of a successful
composition.   So, it doesn't occur to either of them that they might both
be right as in; Its good therefore not tonal.

Many still maintain that "consonant" music is tonal and good and that
"dissonance" music is non tonal and bad.

The paradigm shift that non-tonal music is an marvelous entity all its own
and isn't really tonal is still not universally accepted.

Untill these details are hashed out expect imprecision. 

Phil Fried, Phil Fried.com 

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6127

I can't contact these folks any more--what is it?  my e-mails are returned???

 anyway Dan is starting to get on my nerves--thought its true I can be a hot head!!

"..I can't recommend youth and school orchestras enough as potential
collaborators for less-established composers hungry for experience."

I like your posts.  Really I do.  Its just that here I think your tone
seems directed at a classroom of the select few rather than the many
thousands who might read these posts. The fact you have been commissioned 4
times in this area is a marvelous thing but I wonder how many of us can
duplicate it.  

Yes I know that visualization can be the key to success, but
there are many different kinds of success aren't there?

Of course you have to tell the truth. Its just a matter of tone.
Actually if I have a bone to pick about this it has mostly been with the
posts of the performers, whom seem blithely unaware that, most likely, they will
never perform our music. 

The assumption that we are all fans and not supplicants.   

Stymied at that.

 Phil Fried, philfried.com,who swears hes not bitter

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6106

The difference between "people" and "objects" seems pretty obvious doesn't it?  Yet when you have an axe to grind such niceties hardly matter....mclaren is one of those people, also I get boored with the one monolithic answer to everything ie the dissertation approach...

Good for the goose
By philmusic

"..Contemporary composers ...can write rhythms for small ensembles which are impossible for large orchestras to play, due to "the lack of rehearsal time available" for the large orchestras and their "lack of familiarity" with the musical style involved.... "Classically trained symphony performers are completely unable to play such rhythms."

My experience with orchestral players might be different then yours but Mclaren, which is it? Are you saying that orchestral players can't do it or they could do it if they had the time, or that they have no interest in learning to perform it? Even if what you are implying is so, and its not, this wouldn't be a problem of the performers but rather a problem of performing institutions and entrepreneurship.

Three things on orchestration, which I kind of like doing.

1)on Broadway professional orchestrators are needed for the many issues that swamp a composer leaving them with no time to do anything but make changes in the master score; rehearsals, new songs intros etc.

Note: Just a short time working with Opera Bob, for only a 50 minuet program, showed me this was true. Even on the small scale the amount of time needed to cover all the artistic bases is just not there.

2) Many pop recordings do adhere to strict sonic profiles-which of course that can be the producers and engineers job. Some of these sonic profiles rightly have become famous and are widely imitated.

3) as too blame it on the Beatles, Jazz performers and the"signature song and sound" also operate as un-imatatable authentic sources and long before the Beatles too.

Phil Fried PhilFried.com, OperaBob.org

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6077

 Mr A C D just doesn't get it.

right to the point
By philmusic

Understanding musical nomenclature is not the same as understanding musical art.

Phil Fried, Philfried.com. Operabob.org

Maybe...
By philmusic

You don't have to have perfect pitch to be able to identify a chord progression by sound alone.

You can play by ear and not have perfect pitch either.

In some cases its in fact easier to play by ear than to read the charts.

Phil Fried philfried.com,operabob.org

not really
By philmusic

"...But you do need perfect pitch to be able to notate the actual heard notes that make up that heard progression..."

I must disagree here.

In fact with a handy piano to refer to, and a handy playback on the recording, not to mention a means to notate, it is possible to find all the notes the keys etc.

I believe its called pitch matching and it only takes time.

Phil Fried Philfried.com, operaBob.org

 http://artsandentertainment.independentminds.livejournal.com/574497.html?view=1457697#t1457697

 Oh my. Why does it take “bravery” to commission “classical music” from yet another unskilled glamorous pop star? Beside the fact that Mr. Wainwright is completely unknown to the “person in the street” the bigger question is; why do opera companies avoid commissioning trained composers?

philmusic1000 wrote:

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6047

I always find the wrong questions asked here.  Anyway to make my point more plain if you don't take the gig they don't ever call you again It seems that folks hem and haw when it comes to K.G. Go figure.

on professionalism
By philmusic

Applying for grants awards etc, are part of a composers professional activities. There is an expectation that composers or any musician wanting to be professional will take part. This is tradition. So, it could be said that many musical folks, including composition teachers, expect their students to apply and some to win - greater the reflective glory for them, their school, and their institution.

What happens if you turn down an opportunity? What happens if you refuse awards? What happens to folks or students who are "unprofessional?" For whatever reason? It may be good. May be not.

The world goes on doesn't it?

Oh, there is one thing that bugs me about competitions--the style police and misleading advertising.

Many times I have applied for "music composition" grants that were judged by "sound artists." Since, oddly enough, I can apply in both categories but can only chose one this can be perplexing to say the least.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com OperaBob.org

--------------------------------------

the enemy is us
By philmusic

Entry fees are not a global red flag. Where is this myth coming from?

Well June the American Composer Forum tells its members not to apply for such opportunities and I agree.

Kyle, I know a number of composers grants that are judged by panels that include folks other than composers, performers for example. Many times panels include administrators and gatekeepers. The NEA grants for example included professional types who were not even musicians.

Some panels may be made up of composers, but I would use that term loosely as I, nor anyone else, has ever heard of them. Nor will. Sorry June. Of course that doesn't mean anything. 

[Of course there is a difference between being known and being qualified isn't there?]

Kyle the panel you described would be a nightmare for me. I would have had to resign.

Phil Fried, who talks big. Philfried.com operabob.org

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6025

Location, Location, Location
By philmusic

"..American Idol may be the most significant locus of study in the field of performance practice..."

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com

___________________________________________________

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6032

I go too far here but I must say that counterpoint is not a feature of a lot of recent American music--at least counterpoint that has real independence -for that reason the piano/solo instrument thought from Ms. Higdon has no resonace fo me.

empty toolchest?
By philmusic

"American music is vertical; European music is more linear/horizontal."

Generalizations tend to be wrong, but if this "is" so then its a training issue.

A linear approach to my mind means a mastery of counterpoint. Mastery of this technique is created by extensive study and use not by taking just a semester or two in college. The experience of the teacher also counts. How may American music composition programs require counterpoint as a core subject? I would think that the ones that do would show the results.

On the other hand, counterpoint as a musical technique is an intellectual approach to musical problems and as such is out of favor these days at least in the USA.

Am I suggesting that an inadequately trained composer could be successful even have their works demanded over better trained ones? Actually no. Talent will trump training.  We do tend to forget just how well trained folks like John Cage and Eric Satie were. 

Rather I find that many American composers over-compose and add too much spoiling the beauty.

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com, Operabob.org

a shot in the dark
By philmusic

"..But you know Phil, the first thing that came to mind for me when I read that is free improvisation (very broad term there) which often relies heavily upon and generates some stunning results from a "vertical" approach to playing very much in the moment..."

My experience with free improvisation has lead me to believe that it is more linear than vertical, but point taken. It is easy to misunderstand when we all have a slightly or completely different view of what our terms mean.

Anyway I was referring specifically style-wise to music like British composer Bob Chilcott who's music sounds completely vertical to me.

Phil Fried,PhilFried.com, operabob.org

a small rewrite
By philmusic

"..On the other hand, counterpoint as a musical technique is an intellectual approach to musical problems and as such is out of favor these days."

When I first responded here I admit that I did not know who Mr. Chilcott was or what he composed and so I took his comments at face value. Now that I know I find his remarks bizarre.

To use my own case in a "popular style"

A Children's garden of Peace

Oh I am a string instrument player by the way.

Phil Fried, PhilFRied.com, operabob.org

final point
By philmusic

Its not easy to remember that though some of us live in music it is a world much larger than ourselves.

Phil Fried, hoping to avoid an international indecent.

______________________________________________

Candor by Philmusic

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6034

Let's all stop blaming academia for our personal problems.

I would like to comment here I really would, but I'm afraid I have nothing nice to say.  Pthoege, I feel your pain but Academic insiders are Academic insiders no matter what style of music they offer.   Period.

Whatever my academic career was or was suppose to be I say this: There is not a single person I went to school with that I would have as a colleague.  

 So I don't.

 Phil Fried, PhilFried.com Operabob.org

http://newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=6006

This seems misnamed for me because the conversation here is not about audiences at all but about performance rituals. These rituals include the listeners as well as the performers, staging, etc. into its totality. Mr. Saltzman is an experienced musician/creator an I wonder whether he is staking out a position rather than providing insight.

For example though an audience will take part in, lets say, the performance rituals of grand opera, it is quite common for those same folks to take part in many other rituals connected to many other different kinds of entertainments. The "audience" is not a discrete entity. Also performance rituals for grand opera can vary from place to place, country to country, and even to a particular performance space.

Performance art may have rituals distinct from grand opera but rituals they are. Further the audience does not create these rituals rather the gate keepers do so by their expectations. One of the badges of membership into certain "crowds" (hipness for example) is the ability to know these differing expectations and to act accordingly.

One doesn't want to be a tourist.

The whole issue of "what an audience is" is not answered at all. This question can be explosive as it would reveal a secret--that audiences are made up of interested and disinterested folks.  This would also include professional and captive contingents. This includes those who attend from obligation and the quid pro quo. The captive audience is something not much mentioned and this is not just referring to papering the house either. Students are many times required to attended performances, as are grad students, colleges, frenemies you name it. more later

Phil

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6012

thought or action?
By philmusic

"..Thinking and worrying...worrying and thinking,..It's a vicious circle.." Victor/Victoria

Just grab the Tiger by the tail. It will be one wild ride.

Phil Fried, http://Philfried.com Worry free since...well who am I kidding?

Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 2:06:11 PM

________________________________

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6010 

 there is a sub text here-- one that has to do with power-you know how that bugs me.

presto chango
By philmusic

I've composed that way as well. Mostly I have composed directly into score-no changes. Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that I compose opera and vocal music - and also solo improvisation.

I know what your thinking --those changes at least in theatrical music will be forth coming!

Anyway, I have also composed by multi preliminary sketches that end up bearing no resemblance to the final composition at all.

Personal misdirection. -go figure!

Phil Fried, Skid Roe University, Free Beer!

Friday, May 22, 2009, 2:59:17 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5992

 Well not too much--here again the the big fish eat the little fish--speaking of the nonbobs of negativity!

On the other hand... 
By philmusic

"Nobody is in the repertoire." 

Well. Then nobody's out of it either.

Even us nobodies. 

Phil Fried, PhilFried.com. 

OK folks if you don't know by now my employer SPPS has decided to cut 10 band positions in the elementary area.  So I have this site:  http://keepinstrumentalmusicinsaintpaul.blogspot.com/

 I have also been dealing with various problems about being an activist. Needless to say that cutting jobs can bring out the best and the worst in people.

Everyone has worked hard to get the word out --this hard work got our cuts reduced by about half.  This means a single teacher will work 5 programs in 5 schools in 5 days 1 school per day. We offered to consult on any restructuring of the instrumental programs and the district agreed.

 We are now at phase 2 -- what to do next? 

1. Do we work with the district, or not?  We offered too.
2. How do we continue to press job reinstatements?

The biggest difficulty is this that those with the least to lose, that is the oldest veterans with complete job security, do nothing, or stir the pot of fear, grandstand, and bad mouth,    Yet when the time comes for tough decisions --disappear.  Venting anger does not move a process forward.    

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5945

Me being bad

a old story
By philmusic

Oh, is there not one maiden breast

Which does not feel the moral beauty

Of making worldly interest

Subordinate to sense of duty?

W.S. Gilbert

Sometimes the way of the gossip is paved with good intentions?

What of Loyalty?

Reciprocity?

What of the good ole Quid pro quo?

Being a member of a particular team may also mean towing the party line, at least in public. Perhaps in America, being a larger country, this is less intense. Well perhaps. Anyway there is a price to pay when you join a team, and an even higher one if you don't.

Phil Fried Phil's composition page

the best of all possible worlds
By philmusic

"...Personally, I think we American composers have to remain as independent and apolitical as possible. Our forefathers are Ives and Nancarrow (et al)..."

Matt, Mr. Nacarrow fought in the Spanish Civil War as a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and lived in Mexico because of his dedication to communism.

I'm afraid some political and life choices have to be made and these do have consequences even for Americans.

Phil Fried

Thursday, April 09, 2009, 11:03:41 PM